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Post by Annihilation Nation on Jun 18, 2016 19:27:53 GMT
What does everyone think. What happened at the U.S. Open really brings to light that we should probably change this rule. If we can get a consensus and get a 100% vote we can change a rule mid season.
The spirit of this rule is so teams can change their golfers in and out after the cut has been made. Maybe the easiest way to do this is to simply have the subs be due prior to the first tee time of the day after the cut is actually made, NOT when the cut is supposed to be made. With this there will be many instances where there maybe only a few golfers that don't finish their 2nd round that forces us to have the subs be due after essentially the 3rd round.
We can discuss this for a few days if need be and then before the next tourney we can have a vote.
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Post by SubSeventy on Jun 18, 2016 20:56:14 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly certain that last year it was that the subs had to be entered/submitted by the first tee time of the third round. I am 100% in full support of that rule.
Vote yes, change it!
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Post by Annihilation Nation on Jun 19, 2016 1:26:31 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly certain that last year it was that the subs had to be entered/submitted by the first tee time of the third round. I am 100% in full support of that rule. Vote yes, change it! Just for clarification would you want to support having it before the first tee time of the third round even if it happens on the same day that the second round ends or would you be in favor of having it happen after the day when the cut actually happens. |
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Post by Annihilation Nation on Jun 19, 2016 1:37:33 GMT
I can see how the rule can be confusing and interpreted 2 different ways. Here is how the rule is written on the rule sheet.
"If a tourney has a cutdown day and on that day (usually Friday) the cut is not officially made the subs are still due by the first tee time on the day after cut down day".
I interpret this as saying that even if the cut doesn't officially happen until sometime on Saturday the subs still need to be made before the first tee time on the day after the cut was supposed to originally happen (Not when the cut actually happened). I can see how that can be taken the other way.
I am going to have to re write this to have it be more clear.
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Post by Annihilation Nation on Jun 19, 2016 1:45:39 GMT
The easiest way to do this going forward is very simple in my mind. Subs should be due before the first tee time (regardless of which round that should be) of the day following the day that the cut actually happens not when it is scheduled to happen. When I say tee time I mean when the first ball is stricken for the day by any golfer period. That doesn't mean any golfer on just the team that wants to make a sub and that also does not mean any golfer that strikes a ball starting the next round after that day the cut actually happens, assuming one round ends and starts on the same day.
Im my mind it would be just as simple to set that time as 5AM Central time the day after the cut actually happens but I realize people want this time to be as late as possible.
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Post by greenjacksixpack on Jun 19, 2016 8:35:32 GMT
I think that we are all comfortable with each other, and nobody here is untrustworthy, and/or trying to do something egregiously inappropriate to gain an unfair advantage in substituting. Most weeks, there never is an issue, but weeks like this where weather screws with things...just need to be fair. I just think as long as you enter a sub after cuts are made, and before the the next round begins ( first golfer tees off), it should be allowed. Most weeks, this will be aa normal, anyway. However, it would make things fair when you DO have like this week, where you need to see what happens to certain golfers, first. To make a substitution, when you have players who have a full round even to play still...that just is not realistic.
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Post by weekendhackers on Jun 19, 2016 15:36:19 GMT
I echo the sentiment that nobody here is trying to cheat the league. This is just a complex rule and situation  Looking at this weekend. I was extremely lucky to have Summerhays play late/early. Had he not I wouldn't have a golfer playing in a tier 1 event who is in the top 5 entering round 4. Only because of when he was scheduled to tee off in round 1/2. That just makes no sense and in no way is fair. I believe the only fair way to do it is to force subs to be made prior to the start of the 3rd round. You can always sub early to be safe. Maybe the commish would allow someone to say "If Golfer A is ahead of Golfer B at the end of round 2 pls sub golfer A in. If that would be allowed then that would alleviate some of the concerns people aren't available at the time of the end of round 2 on quick restarts. If you allow all of Saturday play before sub then you again are allowing part of the field extra info (round 3) to make a sub decision. That is probably more fair (at least cuts were done), but still not entirely fair. Especially when playing split tees as guys middle of the pack tee off when leaders do. In this day and age all of us likely have a computer in our pocket so it isn't like we need to be at home in front of a computer. I think allowing subs to be made with an if statement in rare cases like this would fully eliminate the issue. |
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Post by offcourse on Jun 19, 2016 16:10:20 GMT
Im okay with whatever is decided. I like to have it before round 3 or after the cut has been made. I do like erics idea that you get the evening to make the changes tho too. I forgrt to do it many times because im at the lake amd just am not paying attention. Thats on me tho
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Post by offcourse on Jun 20, 2016 13:34:59 GMT
One thing I will add. I think regardless of whether the rule changes we make some modifications for Tier 1 events. The US Open mess is a perfect example of how difficult it is to make a decision based on the information we had when the cut was actually due for the league. It's also a perfect example of just how big of an impact that can have. Some huge point swings can be made with these events.
That said, it has to be fair. If we make it the following morning after the cut has been made there is a chance a lot of the 3rd round could have been played on Saturday and then our cuts/subs would have to be made by Sunday morning?
And, let's hope this doesn't happen at the British. LOL Will have to make changes at 3am. LOL
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Post by enoughpars on Jun 20, 2016 19:23:23 GMT
I think the easiest/most fair decision is to have our subs due before the first ball is hit in the third round (whether this is Saturday morning, or Saturday at 3). This way everyone has the same information to go off of, all of the golfers have played the same number of holes, and you can make your decision from there. Yes, in rare cases it may be an inconvenience depending on your weekend plans, however if we are taking about fairness, it's not fair to make someone make a decision if their golfer still has golf left to be played in the second round...especially in a tier 1 event, and at the US open where anyone can hop on that bogey train in a hurry.
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Post by Annihilation Nation on Jun 21, 2016 1:12:18 GMT
If I end up being out voted next year by league majority on how the sub rule is supposed to work than so be it but I will not vote for a sub rule that allows people to make their sub decision during a small timeframe likely on a Saturday afternoon. I just don't like the logistics and confusion that can cause. I don't want to have to make an unpopular commissioner decision on whether a sub should count or not based on not knowing exactly when one round stops and another round begins. I want to take the gray area away, not add to it.
What I will vote for is to move the sub deadline to the day after the cut is actually made before the first tee time for that next day. If the 3rd round ends up being complete by then that is just the way it is. I would much rather do that then to deal with the confusion of a mid day deadline that will be hard to track. I think that would be the fairest way to do it but this is just my opinion.
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Post by weekendhackers on Jun 21, 2016 13:34:22 GMT
Eric I prefer what you just proposed over what we currently have. If those are the only 2 options for this year.
Thanks
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Post by SubSeventy on Jun 22, 2016 3:54:48 GMT
Eric I prefer what you just proposed over what we currently have. If those are the only 2 options for this year. Thanks ditto for this year |
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Post by Sand Rage on Jun 26, 2016 16:54:18 GMT
I'm fine with whatever is decided🍻
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Post by Annihilation Nation on Jun 28, 2016 3:55:26 GMT
Since there really hasn't been much for discussion on this lately I will put this thing up for a vote. We need a unanimous vote to be able to change this rule.
Vote for either option
1) We keep the substitution rule the same as it is now
2) We change the substitution rule to always have subs due by the first tee time (meaning the first ball hit in competition) on the day after the cut actually takes place.
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